Revolution

[Rondou]

Hi,

I saw that there were few talks about revolution on the web site. As we all think that the revolution part was to easy. I think we should discuss of a good scenario for the revolution.
For a start lets consider the former scenario :

- Most of things happen with independancy feeling
I think time or player power (number of fortress, number of dragoon , number of other nations colonies ). To make decleration more interresting to declare early
- once you reach 50 % , one nation disapear from the map giving all to another one.
- then computer wait for you to declare indepandance
So you wait to have a lots of fortress, every interresting founding father, no war, no that much indians.
- Regulars are added to king force one a number of turn basis (each turn if your are a viceroy ?)

- Then When you declare independance :
- Some of your troops are upgraded to continental armie.
So you can face with the king army. Else our troops are not that effective.
- King make a land fall near one of your colonie every turn
good , not everything at the same time, but very quick thought. After there is the choice of colonie and the type of war the king should do but that's a AI stuff not a scenario stuff.
- A nation will help you if you gather enought SoL (troops and man-o-war)
In history france really help americans. France was against england, and saw a good opportunity to weaken england. Should stay for that
- A nation will sell you troops
Not too bad, but maybe we should know ask (as we develop the diplomacy part)
- A big war, you have to get back all of your colonies
Maybe we should be more flexible (Remenber that island you couldn't reach because every square were occupy by troops)
- If you leave a town without troops, you may have a tory uprising (if the town have been once on the tory side)
Good make things harder, the player can't use all his troops it must keep them in every colonie.
- Indians get crazy and rally the tories
I am for a much more complex relation with indians (remember taht some indians were fighting with france, against england). So you can make peace, declare war, have common plan etc... So This part is good but shouldn't be limited at the decleration time.
- All nation become nice with you.
Maybe we should still have some angry nation who wants to gets most of your colonies. They shouldn't rally to the king but as they see large army in america they bring regulars too. This make the game harder and less predictable (we don't know which nation will be on our side)
- Your boats can't sail anymore to Europe.
I would like to be able to go to other nation ports. But not only after decleration. This another wish : when we sell to the old world, a little map of europe africa is show with some dot on i and them we choose where we go. Time to travel would be different, (price also), product to by or to sell ... We could also travel in europe, or from europe to africa. As it is a good feature, this should be allowed after a amount of time, a founding father etc (first we must be still very close to the king)

IMO some other stuff should happen, before and after decleration:

-- Before :
- After an date, modified by player advancement, the king should bring troops to the new world. Ask for a fortress you own as a base to make some fight in the new world. This could of course be negociated : if you pay a certain price , give monopoly on selling products, give troops you could be able to choose more or less wich place should go to kings power
- (Loyalty thing)The Kings ask you to build prison, in your colony to limit the percentage of rebel. (this should happen if you have 75% of the new world population as rebel). The king would change the production in some town to prison and you wouldn't be able to change it
- The king sent a person to watch on your action. You have to give money for the trip, and give money to the guy to forget all your doings (selling to other nation, having to much printing press). If you don't the kings know about your doing and is more likely to prevent independance...
- Ask you to sell musket to mother nation (at cheap price of course). (does not want you to be well equiped). in an amount depending of the rebel feeling * number of troup * 50 * fear king factor
- Ask for tribute

-- After :
- The king may fight the nation allied with you and take some position. You'll have them to remove them from those base.
this may be good as will make those fight easy for the king (surprise effect). And once inside a fortress it's more difficult to fight. And this may be a base for the king to produce weapon, health troops etc ...
- The tories should produce much more colonist troops. not hesitate to transfert rifle or musket to base recently taken. to make good defense.



And last, as you know i like the loyalty thing so here's a little scenario and some ideas to this feature

In my idea, the player should choose this options as declaration of independance. The goal here is to prevent the nation from being independant. So there should be somethings that make this oath happens. But as said before the oath should not be a thing the player must do, but a thing he have to do because pression is being to hard.
As i said before before decleration the king do lots of stuff, that make the player in a bad position. So the player had to make the oath in order to stop tribute, selling musket etc ...
As he make the oath the colonist rebels and take rifles ...

I propose two scenario :
- we take the tory side. We don't have any colony on our side (nothing to change exept that we are the king now)
the problem with this one is that as i player before making the oath i disband all of my units...
or if the number of troops is not related with what we had, it's less interresting
- We keep most of our colony
Only some with great stateman rally the rebels. Few help from the king. But most of our troops have to be use to control colony. Slave (who wants things change are more likely to rebel). As rebelion make some colonies on the other side, most of the other nation rally them and give them troop.
We have to keep on producing as the king may want a gift as a symbol of our oath. Our productivity is worse.
Our statesman now produce crown to reduce rebelion and bring back productivity.

I stop because we'll discuss that in the other thread.

What do you think of this ?

[kerekfym]

Personally, I like many of your ideas.

But I prefer to create a general forum, where we can talk about the whole gameplay.

I thing your ideas about the loyality are good. If we can add these to the things on the 'Loyalty' forum, we will get a very good game indeed...

[LandGrabber]

I agree we shouldn't require the Player to have all of his colonies become independent. That was never very realistic as you pointed out.

I haven't given it a lot of thought from a coding point of view, but I don't think we need follow the old game's example of having one of the Powers drop out of the game to make room for the REF.

From the Rebel Player's side I think there should be two scenarios in which the Revolution should start. 1. The Player can 'Declare' like in the old game once certain conditions are met. 2. A 'Spontaneous Uprising' by the population can trigger the Rebellion unexpectedly, again under certain conditions. (This would be pretty much the same as having the King declare your colonies in Revolt.)

I'm not really sure I like the concept of having some of the Player's troops automatically upgraded to 'Continental Army' status. Seems to me this should only happen after several turns of training and actual combat with the 'Regulars'. Similar to achieving 'Veteran' status in the old game.

I'd also like to see multiple landings (more than 1 per turn) and a variable number of units per landing. The old game you always knew pretty much the size of the force you were going to face. If instead of 6, you might face anywhere from 3 to 12 units (as an example) it would make stationing garrison forces much more difficult.

Foreign Intervention: Yes this was important historically especially in terms of money, equipment, and fleets. However in the old game I usually tried to finish off the REF without outside help. (Course with the unit limit it was rare that any of the Intervention force ever actually showed up.) We might want to look at other ways of handling this concept.

I really like the Tory Uprisings in the old game. I think we shouldn't make them dependent on having a certain number of forces in a colony or area. Instead I'd like to have them be more random. (For some reason independent Tory action was more likely to occur in areas in which the Regular army was less active.)

I agree the Natives, and the other Powers should be much more flexible in their response to the Revolution. This is an area in which we can make lots of changes.

Yes, during the Revolution it should still be possible to sail to the Home Country/Africa (or other continents). However, since the Home Fleet is larger and better, you should expect to lose ships when you try this.

I'd also like to add that during the Revolution it should still be possible to found new Colonies. I think the old game imposed this restriction just to keep things simple. Sort of like not having the Foreign Affairs Report available during the Revolution and not being able to 'Visit' the other Power's colonies. We may find that from a coding point of view this makes sense, but I hope not.

I'm not opposed to the 'Loyalist Option' just that I think we might want to defer it to a later version. Still that doesn't mean we should discus the concept and how it would work.